Much Ado About Planing Stops

Your photo shows a poor example of the use of the planing stop. Seriously, who does traditional woodworking works with a bench not equipped with a vise or two? And who would edge plane a stock as shown in your photo, ignoring the vise?

Richard,
I strongly disagree.
"who does traditional woodworking works with a bench not equipped with a vise or two"
Pretty much everyone before 1820 - when some of the best furniture was made. Metal vises are much later and wooden vises were not ubiquitous.

"And who would edge plane a stock as shown in your photo, ignoring the vise?"

If you have a long board planing an edge in the vise is unsupported, planing the face is even worse. You can use an outboard support in conjunction with the vise, as I used to do - but this is dead stable and super fast. It probably won't work for a long 1/2" or thinner board but I haven't had something that thin to plane recently. I used to think that planing stops were wonky. But after getting a nice sharp one I see why they were so popular in the pre-industial age.

I will never go back.

Richard, planing against stops is faster than using a vise; the ability to edge plane against a stop was the purview of fifteen year old apprentices, likely after only a few weeks on the job. If you're dogging, or using a vise for every workpiece, you're going about it *somewhat* incorrectly. Speed may not be important to you, but understanding how speed was achieved before power tools is important. Working against a dog allows the craftsman to flip and turn workpieces without touching anything but the workpiece.

Thanks for your response.

I am talking about current days as in "who does...," not the history. I have not come across one single workbench (unless it is an assembly table) in any one's shop that has no vise.

Most people will find it difficult to edge plane a narrow stock, say, 4 feet long accurately square simply relying on the bench surface and a planing stop. It is much easier to sight to check the squareness when a stock is held in a vise by the edge of the bench.

Paul Sellers has repeatedly seen edge planing a long stock (5 feet or longer?) using the bench vise along, with no support on the other hand. I do use a support and he proves s way of working.

Richard,
Once again I would have to disagree.
I have milled a lot of wood up by hand from rough (didn't have a jointer or planer). The best part of a planing stop for me is that I don't worry that the board will shift in the vise, and to sight for square I just pick up the end and bring it to my eye - no stooping!

I looked at two other photos and one video from different vendors showing a similar type of planing stop (one calls it bench stop). They all show the stock being surface planed.

The planing stop is simply limited in its ability to plane stock on narrow edges as there is no support on the side. Yes, a skilled plane user would be able to do edge plane with it, but I will bet that is not the case with an average user. Many average users struggle with edge planing an edge square even when the stock is fully supported. It is like saying you can flatten a long board with just a #4, as Paul Sellers does. But how many Sellers are out there?

All I am saying is if an average customer buys one of your stops, thinking he can do edge planing with it, he is in for some disappointment. I am commenting about the photo and not suggesting it is a bad product.

Richard,
I still disagree.
The key bit in a planing stop is that it is sharp and digs in. When it does that then planing an edge isn't a big deal. It's dead solid. How wide a board can you plane an edge on, or how long, is still something I am investigating. By the time we start selling this we will have a decent answer. Of course for long, tall thin boards is simple - a handscrew or some other stop at the other end. But what I am investigating is just working with the stop alone.
This conversation reminds me of some of the conversations I had years ago about holdfasts - that they were obsolete and didn't work as well as some of the other modern gadgets. This issue turned out to be that good holdfasts work great and make woodworking easier for everyone - beginner and advanced craftsperson. Bad ones don't work and don't. I think we might find the same thing about planing stops.

Richard,
I still disagree.
The key bit in a planing stop is that it is sharp and digs in. When it does that then planing an edge isn't a big deal. It's dead solid. How wide a board can you plane an edge on, or how long, is still something I am investigating. By the time we start selling this we will have a decent answer. Of course for long, tall thin boards if there is an issue the solution is simple - a handscrew or some other stop at the other end. But what I am investigating is just working with the stop alone.
This conversation reminds me of some of the conversations I had years ago about holdfasts - that they were obsolete and didn't work as well as some of the other modern gadgets. This issue turned out to be that good holdfasts work great and make woodworking easier for everyone - beginner and advanced craftsperson. Bad ones don't work and don't. I think we might find the same thing about planing stops.

For you folks if your near Toledo Ohio I have a Nicholson style workbench in my garage shop that is a copy from Lost,Art Press and Mike Siemensen it has no vise.It works just fine with the crochet as the stop and Gramercy hold fasts
It surprised the shit out of me how well it works. I have a split top Roubo with Bench works face chop and wagon vise in storage until the new shop is complete but don't really miss it.I have used a Moxon bench top for joinery and wouldn't need it except I,am more comfortable with the work closer to me.

Richard, I do primarily hand-tool work and I don't have a vice of any sort installed on my bench. I do use a homemade planing stop, and the front of the bench has a crochet that works nicely in conjunction with a series of dog holes. I built the bench from plans found in Popular Woodworking (picture here): https://www.popularwoodworking.com/woodworking-blogs/chris-schwarz-blog/revising-first-book-workbenches

It does everything I need it to do, and the money I saved by not having to buy vices was able to be put into hand tools and project material.

Joel:

I have two push up stops in my bench, one @ 30 1/2” and one @ 61 1/2” taken from the right side tail vise.
They are 1/2” x 2 1/2”. On them I sawed a “living spring” so they will remain in their slots when engaged.

I was inspired by the Frank Kluz bench when in 2004 I built my “Reform Sloyd Bench”
I employed an English quick opening Record tail vise and the traditional Continental screw shoulder vise as well as four holdfast bores- used all the time!
Also, there’s a full compliment of twelve dog holes, 6 1/2” on center.

Thanks Joel, as usual…Christopher J. Thomas

PS, I love your sash saw!

Looks very interesting. I wish it came out before I bought another one. Mortising that big planning stop didn't go as planned. I was just thinking how I need to tune it up. The planning stop works so well and makes things so much quicker.

Thank you and would like to see more. John Rea

If your new planing stop is saw-plate thin so I can plane a 1/4" thick piece of wood in addition to thicker pieces laid flat or on edge, I will definitely buy it. Otherwise, I will make my own.

Who is Paul Sellers?
Is he qualified to comment?

I made a planing stop about the same dimensions and it works ok if the wood is vertical but when I plane the faces the wood wobbles when I’m off center of the planing stop. Did you figure out how to solve this?

The planing stop is 1/8” thick. We use three screws because we find we get a much more stable hold than two screws in any direction.

“Different strokes for different folks” will never change, and there’s a lot more between an unplanned board and a masterful finished product than the method used to secure the wood while planing. I learned hardworking in the school Paul Sellers started in texas, and still use many of the techniques taught there. But I read and watch many others like Rousseau, Pekovich, Becksvoort, Hack, Schwarz, Gochnour, Latta, Fortune, Stowe, Adams, Van Dyke, Klaus, Lowe, and many more, each of whom imparts a slightly different technique. Having now tried many of them I can see how all could be attractive depending on individual need and preferences. Some require vices, some don’t. Your call.

I’ve been wanting a traditional toothed stop and like the Benchcrafted plan better than others except for cutting a big hole in the bench that probably won’t happen. My bench has square dog holes, and I have cut a pattern and drilled out the middle to make dogs that use Joel’s hold-downs. They work extremely well, especially when using Becksvoort method of cleaning out tails and pins. I’d love to have a simple toothed planing stop that I could screw to the top of a square bench dog. Eh, Joel?

Wayne,
The planing stop in the picture is small enough so that it is sxrewed onto the top of a 3/4” square dog. It’s a careful fit on the top of the stop, but it but works great.

Joel, that’s great news. A perfect answer for my need. Just send one this way when you’re ready for a review ;)

If I tried to use this on a bench with 3/4" round dog holes it seems like it wouldn't be great. I've been pondering a planing stop lately and thinking that one huge advantage would be that it could hold work that didn't have perfectly square ends because the teeth will dig in and it can't swivel.

Adrian,
3/4” holefast holes are pretty common., We have a solution coming.
Joel

Another RICHARD; Paul Sellers has a YouTube channel and a school in England teaching hand tool woodworking. One power tool he suggests using is a band saw. Oh yes also I've seen him use an electric bench grinder. Once.

I routinely plane boards on edge on nothing but a bench hook. Works great. A stop would be an improvement and I will probably buy one. Yes, I do a lot of hand work and no, I don’t own a bench with any vices. I have been building furniture for nearly 10 years and never got around to building a proper bench, mostly because my time is limited and shop projects bore me to tears.

I'm looking forward to seeing this on the market. I currently do my work on a viceless bench and find the. Current planning stops wanting for my application this looks right.